Now, I must admit that I was thinking to myself that I was re-reading Woolf like I re-read Austen BEFORE I read the Eagleton comment, but his connecting of the two has me intrigued. If you accept his assertion that both Austen and Woolf write about the home, and what goes on inside it (very little of the rest of the world is there, only peripherally in Mrs. Dalloway), and the home of the upper middle class, for that matter, then you will also see that they treat the subject differently. How so? Indeed, you may not think they do. Critics call Austen's works novels of manners. Could you classify Mrs. Dalloway in the same way?
Figure out the question(s) in that!!
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
16 comments:
Okay, huh? Now I am completely confused. I do not see the resemblance or similarity in the two works or authors. Okay, maybe if I place their works in a criticism of upper-middle-class-society category then I could see how both are similar in that respect. They definitely conduct their criticisms quite differently though.
I disagree with Eagleton on the point that Mrs. Dalloway is about the home and what goes on inside it. I believe he meant to use the word self instead of home; Mrs. Dalloway is about what goes on inside an individual’s mind—their thought process. It is also about connecting the human world with the non-human. If you look at Austen’s Persuasion, in a sense, the characters are dealing with both inwardly and outwardly issues. However, it is more class based than Woolf’s novel.
Maybe I am wrong, but I do not see the connection that Eagleton makes. I cannot say that Mrs. Dalloway is a novel of manners. If so, then how so? Clarissa does not specify table manners; she does not mention how to properly invite one to a party; she definitely does not tell me as a reader how to act at a party. Woolf’s novel tells me how certain parts of society—-the war, government, capitalism, totalitarianism, etc.—-has affected the members of society, along with nature.
This is another interesting question. I would say that many English novels focus on class, money, family, and a way of life which leads to a display and discussion of manners. So I would say Jane Austen’s novels are novels of manners, but I wouldn’t necessarily say that about the writing of Mrs. Dalloway. Having lived in England for a few years, I don’t really want to get into the snooty mannerisms of the English. But I think most people reading this blog are probably aware of how snooty, uptight, stiff, and dry humored the English can be. (Case and point: Check out Wives and Daughters.) So moving right along….
Mrs. Dalloway is more about emotions than manners. The characters are to busy thinking about what could have been and what should have been, and in between thoughts, Clarrissa prepares for her party. Then there is Septimus Smith, shell-shocked and suicidal. He is also a big part of the story as he continues to talk to dead people and contemplate suicide. Mrs. Dalloway delves into the minds and thoughts of the characters more than it discusses materialism or mannerisms.
In response to Lady t...
y'all are just cracking me up. I never knew a graded blog could be so entertaining.
Anyway, I do agree with your analysis ( mind over manners) and I like the way you point out the lack of instructions on how to invite one to a party, or how to act at a party. And the lack of guidelines or specifications on table manners....That is Priceless! I would not have thought to word it in the manner that you have, but point clearly taken.
In case you missed my comment to you on the last blog...
Chuck, I would just like to say--thank you for all the good reading, shocking comments and responses, and for allowing me to expand my thought process into the unknown.
You have provided me with countless minutes of entertainment that I will surely remember into the next semester.
******HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE************
I agree that there are graet similarities between the two writers. However, I like Woolfe because she includes not just action, but the psychological thought behind the action. For example, we see Clarissa's mind in Mrs. Dalloway and it allows us to understand her personality and character like, for example, why she gives so many parties. We Septimus' mind and we understand better why he is grieved about the war and the loss of so many who died to protect their homes. The psychological content makes reading what the characters do so much better because it is easier to figure out the "what" when you understand the "why".
I think that Austen and Woolf basically write about the same things; upper middle class, homelife, women and love, etc. However, I think that their purposes are different. Actually, maybe their purposes aren't totally different, but at different levels. I think both writers are showing strong feminist arguments in their novels. They both portray women in a natural, socially acceptable setting. But I think Woolf's feminist ideas have come a longer way than Austen's. Austen wanted to show that women can make their own decisions, such as who they wanted to marry. But Anne marrying Wentworth (or whatever) didn't really change the everyday lives of women. She just got to pick who she wanted to marry, not basing it on certain standards. On the other hand, Woolf also wanted to show that women can make their own decisions. But hers went a little deeper. Clarissa questions who she should have married because she ended up with a very traditional husband doing very traditional things, like giving a party. Yet she wonders if that was the right thing, is there more out there for women? I think Woolf argues that more options are needed for women than just who to marry. What about whether or not to even marry? Or whether to have a job? And, if so, what job? and so on and so forth.
Did this even answer your question?
In response to cicelyj,
I like the point you made about the psychological aspect of Woolf's novel...very true. It definitely gives a deeper understanding on things and I think it greatly helps Woolf with her political agenda. Just like you said, "it is easier to figure out the 'what' when you understand the 'why'."
There undoubtedly exists differing opinions about the home and society in Austen and Woolf’s respective novels. Both authors certainly regard class structure and mobility, but at the end of the road, their opinions of it couldn’t differ more in Mrs. Dalloway and Persuasion.
In Mrs. Dalloway, Clarissa evidently can’t find comfort and refuge in her position, yet she’s content in ‘conforming’ to it for security purposes. This unwavering stance—regardless of her opinions on it—brings oppression to her life and to the novel. Woolf relates the upper crust society with oppressiveness and grief; it couldn’t be more evident with characters such as Septimus. The perils in the home of the upper class lead to an oppressed feeling such as that when Clarissa finds herself at fault for Septimus’ death.
Austen, on the other hand, takes a different approach when speaking of class rigidity. She recognizes that selfish acts will be punished, yet the advantages of ‘making it’ eclipse the disadvantages. Austen respects the social structure, and supports its virtuous bearing.
The only similarities that I see between Woolf's novel and Austen's is the fact that both heroines dwell on the past and the could've beens...I don't really see what the home has to do with these novels. Especially when they are being compared to one another. So for this one, I would have to say that I disagree with Eagleton.
I do think I could classify Mrs. Dalloway as a novel of manners. But it would be pushing it. On the surface I would not focus so much on manners...but looking deeper into character's actions, maybe, just maybe, I could put Mrs. Dalloway right alongside Persuasion when it comes to manners. Although I'm not sure manners is the word for it.
In response to cicelyj,
I never thought of it that way. I like your view on this. Hmm. You just gave me something else to appreciate about the Woolf novel.
I hope I'm answering this correctly. I see more of the home and manners in Persuasion than I do with Mrs. Dalloway. Mrs. Dalloway deals with the psych more than the actions, whereas Austin deals with the settings, times and expectations of woman. Since Wolfe was mentally ill, she portrays that mental imbalance in her characters. But I do not see the manners in Mrs. Dalloway.
In response to Erin:
I like your point about both novels voicing feminist arguments and trying to show women's relationship with nature and society. Ultimately, I believe the authors are trying to convince their readerships about the importance of women in society and to nature. Women try to perserve nature while creating change in society. Better yet, let's re-word my last sentence and state that women try to preserve both nature and society, but expects society to reflect in a more positive light.
Lady T, I'll agree that Dalloway is about the self, but what does that self belong to and where does it seek refuge? the home. This text is full of criticisms of British society, and where do the people's actions commence? the home. Like I mentioned in my post, this novel is about oppression in society; this oppression is brought upon by the insecurities and/or securities of social structure. I really don't see how you can't include the theme of the home in this novel.
i can understand were the similarities could come from, but i'm not so sure that i agree. i mean, yes, they both talk about the upper middle class and they really only focus on the people of this class but, woolf was very much into the psyche of her characters. austen has always been very surface value, even when her best characters are proclaiming love for each other they are still quite shallow. especially on the character front. no, i think woolf is very much darker than austen could ever dream of being.
i agree with the statement that austen is called "novels of manners" but, i really don't see how woolf's novels could be classified as such.
erin,
i like the way you approached the question. i really never would have thought about some of your views... though some are on the same level as most of the class, you really use examples to point out more of their similarities that i didn't think of. sweet.
Martin,
I like your viewpoint on this. Both Austen and Woolf regard social position in their works. Clarissa does conform but still has the demons whereas Austen's characters use a different approach while fighting those same demons. Both have characters whose mannerisms could be considered selfish but each writer presents it differently.
Post a Comment